Around the Barrel Ep061/Re060 - Jack and Coke
Lucas Hendrickson: Even when you have two great things that go great together, bringing them together is rarely a simple process, especially when both things carve out massive places in the environment in which they operate. Then again, sometimes things work out just right.
On this episode, we talk with two of the key figures in bringing the iconic combination of Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola into a single package, about how now was the right time to combine forces on a project like this, about the unique properties each brand brings to the world of ready-to-drink adult beverages, and about how a cocktail known the world over benefits from this chance to go into a can from Around the Barrel.
Welcome back to Around the Barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniel's. I'm your host, Lucas Hendrickson.
Maureen Brekka: I'm Maureen Brekka. I'm the global managing director for ready-to-drink beverages at Brown-Forman. I was actually born in New York City, but now live in Louisville, Kentucky.
Khalil Younes: Hi, I'm Khalil Younes. I'm the president of the emerging category at the Coca-Cola Company. I am a global citizen of French and Lebanese origin. I was born in Beirut, Lebanon, and my home now is Atlanta.
Lucas Hendrickson: Maureen, Khalil, welcome to Around the Barrel.
Khalil Younes: Thank you.
Lucas Hendrickson: As we've done this show over the past five years now, we've uncovered a lot of people for whom their entry into cocktails or just knowing about Jack Daniel's to start with, has come through the iconic combination of Jack and Coke. And now obviously it's out in a combined form as a ready-to-drink product all over the U.S. and various places around the world. Whoever needs or wants to go first, walk us through the timeline of this emerging between the two companies. Obviously, Jack Daniel's and Brown-Forman had been involved in the RTD business before this, but what brought about the combination of these two iconic brands in a single package?
Khalil Younes: I can start for the Coca-Cola Company. I would say that the background is as follows, that Coca-Cola has been extremely successful with its current business. It's an enterprise that is very focused and it has the ambition to offer more choices to consumers across a large spectrum of beverages.
And to be clear is that some of our butlers, which are distributors and they also commercialize the Coca-Cola range of beverage, are also commercializing alcohol, including for some of them, Jack Daniel's. But the trigger element I would say is the entrepreneurship of the Brown-Forman leadership who connected with the Coca-Cola Company and tried to make this happen. So in the end, this culminated in a cold call around January 2021, where we started those discussion that led to this project.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And Maureen from the Brown-Forman side?
Maureen Brekka: Yeah. Well, first I would say, I would like to say this idea was born when Khalil and I were in business school together a couple of decades ago.
Lucas Hendrickson: There we go.
Maureen Brekka: But did not actually meet until the 2021 timeframe that Khalil mentioned. So for Brown-Forman, we've been in the ready-to-drink business for multiple decades in different markets around the world as well as in the U.S. But this was a particularly exciting opportunity to take one of the most popular bar calls in the world and put it together in a beautiful and convenient can for consumers leading to the first market launch in Mexico in November of 2022.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And then when did it roll out in the US? Remind me on that.
Maureen Brekka: In the US, it rolled out last year in 2023 in the spring and through the summer.
Lucas Hendrickson: Okay. And what was the thought process behind choosing, and correct me if I'm wrong in this, the two iterations we have right now, we have the traditional Jack and Coca-Cola and then the Jack and Coke Zero Sugar as part of that, what were the impetus behind choosing those two? Why is there not a true Jack and Diet Coke product, that kind of thing? What were the thought processes behind choosing those two to focus on?
Khalil Younes: Yeah. I can answer this is that the combination of Coca-Cola and Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is really globally speaking the preferred combination globally. There are some exceptions. Some markets where we have Diet Coke that is available. However, the overarching strategy of the Coca-Cola companies to develop Coca-Cola Zero Sugar as it's a no sugar variant. So this is behind the thought process of that combination.
Lucas Hendrickson: I see. I see. After such a long history though, as I was saying, preferred bar calls is a great, absolutely great way to put it. Why is now the right time for this partnership? What is it about this timeframe in which the RTD world truly is exploding? When you think about all the brands that are involved, the combinations thereof, flavor profiles, things like that, what is it about this timeframe that made this partnership work the best?
Maureen Brekka: Well, as you say, I mean, this is a really unique time in the spirits world and the RTD world and the category growth has been just explosive. And what we've really seen happen in the last couple of years is a transition kind of away from the malt based seltzers, which came on the scene four or five years ago, to real spirits based, ready-to-drink products grounded in real brands and quality spirit products. And so this was the perfect time to enter with authentic Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola as a spirit based RTD at the height of the category.
Lucas Hendrickson: Khali, what about from Coke's perspective?
Khalil Younes: Yeah, from Coke's perspective, the strategy of the company is really to offer more choices as part of what we call "Beverage for Life" or being a total beverage company. So again, that's an overarching strategy. In term of the timing, there are circumstances. I think that the COVID was a big triggering factor.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Khalil Younes: And the other triggering factor was a decision that was made by the Coca-Cola company at around that time to engage into alcohol. And of course, the topic of Jack and Coke or the possibility of Jack and Coke came in the front in that thinking.
Lucas Hendrickson: Not that you can probably go into detail, scientific detail on kind of bringing the two together in the best package form. However, I do kind of want to ask, what kind of formulation tests went into finding the right balance, especially as far as flavor profile goes between the two products? Was that a quick turnaround kind of thing or were there a lot of kind of conversations and any sort of internal debate about what the balance would be like for the two flavor profiles?
Maureen Brekka: We did plenty of homework.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Maureen Brekka: And also with consumers to see what their reactions were to the product. But really the drink already exists.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Maureen Brekka: And it's loved everywhere. So the task wasn't that hard from that perspective. And there is a little bit of science to it, and I would describe it, we make Jack Daniel's in our new charred white oak barrels, and that gives us this sort of threefold flavor profile from sweet aromatics like vanilla, brown sugar caramel, the wood notes that come from the barrel, kind of a toasted oak nutty flavor, and what we call brown spices, sort of cloves, cinnamon, black pepper sort of notes to it.
And that just really uniquely pairs extremely well with Coca-Cola. There's really nothing else like it. So there is some science to it and a fair amount of taste testing that goes on. It's a great part of the job, but really our mission was to make the best Jack and Coke drink that we could, that consumers already love in so many places around the world.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Khalil Younes: I will comment on that. To echo what Maureen said in term of there's a little bit of science, there were many iterations to be honest, because in a way the taste of Jack Daniel's is a little bit set, whereas with Coke, we have the opportunity to do a little bit of refinement.
And I think that when you taste the product, you will understand how perfectly blending the flavors of Coca-Cola are with Jack Daniel's, and you will also understand the precision and a little bit of the science and the art that went into that formula. So it took us a little bit of time between let's say the artists of chemistry and taste profile in both companies to come to where we landed at the end.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure. And since again, as Maureen, as you said, it's already such a well-known combination, it's very much an idea of if it ain't broke, don't break it kind of thing. But again, perfect it to be able to have it in a package like this.
Each of you kind of comment on the other brand as far as what are the characteristics, the ideas that make the brands of Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola so recognizable and beloved around the world? If you want to kind of comment on each other's brand, I think that'd be kind of fun.
Maureen Brekka: Really, it's what we see in both brands, I think.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Maureen Brekka: And they're both iconic. They're iconic American brands. They're often featured in movies and songs and art that are part of culture. We like to talk about how it's very seldom that people will love your brand so much they're willing to tattoo it on their arm. We were really excited when we saw the first tattoo of Jack and Coke's can on someone's arm show up in social media.
Lucas Hendrickson: Oh, wow.
Maureen Brekka: So I mean, they're really, really iconic. And I think part of the reason that they both are individually and together so iconic, they're so rooted in authenticity, realness, kind of this relentless commitment to quality and this really interesting combination of the two between boldness that you really get from Jack and I would say sort of optimism and joy that you get from Coca-Cola that just come together so nicely into something that really has a place in culture today.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Khalil Younes: Yeah. I would say these are two very uncommon brands with very strong personalities with their own iconicities. Both of them have a long pedigree. Jack Daniel was born in 1866 and Coca-Cola in 1886. Both of them are from the southeast of the United States with the culture that come with it. I would say that there is a natural complementarity between the brand because from my perspective, Coke brings those optimistic values that Maureen talked about.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Khalil Younes: The positiveness of Coca-Cola, the togetherness of Coca-Cola, the refreshment values of Coca-Cola. But what Jack is bringing is that boldness, that confidence, that Americanness, I would say, that makes actually the combination of those two brands very unique, very distinct and globally very, very iconic.
Lucas Hendrickson: In that same vein, though, what is it about, again, the combination of the two, these iconic brands coming together, and we touched on this a little bit before, how much of a leg up does that give this product and these two companies in the opportunity to cut through the noise for the consumer in this age of seemingly endless lists of RTDs? It's such a fascinating world to look at from the outside. Operating in it as you do, Maureen and Khalil, how much of an advantage does this, just the two names together, Jack and Coke, give the brand and this product in the marketplace?
Khalil Younes: I would say it's a tremendous advantage. And in a sea of sameness, in the multitude of choices that are appearing in the RTD, wouldn't it be nice for the consumer to have a product that simplifies that choice and that requires at the same time a certain confidence to go for. And I think that Jack and Coke really do that, and that's one of the key reason for the success is that wherever you go around the world, there's a pent-up demand. Even in markets where, the few markets where Jack Daniel's is not very well distributed, the knowledge of that brand, the pent-up understanding of what it is, gives it a tremendous advantage.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Khalil Younes: In the marketplace.
Maureen Brekka: Yeah. I mean, there are very few adults who have not heard of both brands. And as we watch our social media commentary coming through, even last week I was looking at one and a sort of celeb had posted something about Jack and Coke, and then the comments that came back were this sort of, "What? That's a thing? Where can I get it?"
Everybody's heard of the brands, everybody's heard of the drink, not everybody yet has heard of the can and that it's available in many markets now around the world. So there is this sort of latent demand with very high brand awareness and a real positive affinity to these brands that for sure gives us an advantage going into this market.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Khalil Younes: The feedback is overwhelmingly positive and the reception is very enthusiastic for the product. The only other comment that I saw looking at the SNS and everything was, "Why didn't you do it before?"
Lucas Hendrickson: That leads into one of my other questions. What's kind of the most, other than the tattoos apparently that are emerging from this, what's kind of the most interesting or unique or flabbergasting piece of feedback you've come across in the midst of all this, other than some people surprised that it's out in the marketplace to begin with?
Khalil Younes: I had a personal experience when we, for the first time on Piccadilly Circus.
Lucas Hendrickson: Oh, wow.
Khalil Younes: In the middle of London created the first 3D billboard, animated billboard, electronic billboard for Jack and Coke on Piccadilly Circus.
Lucas Hendrickson: Oh, wow.
Khalil Younes: It's a wonderful execution, a wonderful billboard with the can of Jack and Coke protruding, seemingly protruding out of the billboard, the animated billboard. So people were really taking selfies with that very beautiful animation behind them. And to see all these people taking selfies, interacting, talking about it, literally stopping in front of the billboard or the sign and look at it, was really a very rewarding experience.
Maureen Brekka: Yeah. That was super exciting. And we saw these incredible executions around the world from pop-up stores in Tokyo to sort of taking over Cancun for the launch. And it was attracting a lot of attention. But I would agree, that Piccadilly Circus board was a real showstopper. And the other thing that's been really interesting about this is we're attracting a lot of adult consumers who don't regularly drink Jack Daniel's ...
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure.
Maureen Brekka: ... as a full-strength whiskey a lot, the vast majority of the consumers. So they have this sort of positive affinity and perception of both brands, but they may just not be whiskey drinkers at the moment, or Jack Daniel's drinkers at the moment. And they love this mixed drink in a can, and it's a wonderful way to sort of extend our arms to ever broader group of adults who can enjoy this product.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure. Breakdown, if you can, where exactly these two products are available around the globe right now and what's the future? Where does this kind of extend to?
Khalil Younes: So I can talk to that, that in the first 12 months, we rolled out the product in 13 countries, and in the past quarter we expanded to six more European markets.
Maureen Brekka: And we're sort of on multiple continents, Asia, Latin America, Europe, North America. We just had our launch events in Canada in the last month. So these are two global brands, and this is a global product.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure. If you can remember back, when did the idea of Jack and Coke, not this as a product, but just as individual consumers yourself, when did it first come into your radar as far as something that you enjoy and have on an occasional basis?
Maureen Brekka: Well, my story goes pretty far back. I've been at Brown-Forman a long time. I won't even say how many years. So really just starting a career in this industry, which is so fun, so exciting, so dynamic, and it was an opportunity to get introduced to a range of different wine and spirits in our portfolio. So really coming into the industry and being introduced to Jack and Coke quite a long time ago would be my story as an adult.
Lucas Hendrickson: Of course. Khalil, how about you?
Khalil Younes: As a student, we used to do like everyone else, those combinations, and that's how I got legal drinking age into Jack and Coke.
Maureen Brekka: Can we just emphasize that Khalil was a student outside of the U.S. where the legal drinking age ...
Khalil Younes: Oh, yeah.
Maureen Brekka: ... might've been different.
Lucas Hendrickson: Are there any additional products under this umbrella of Jack and Coke, this specific combination, that we can expect to see down the road a little bit? Or is this kind of locked in to what these two, this partnership will be?
Maureen Brekka: I think we just see so much potential still.
Lucas Hendrickson: Right.
Maureen Brekka: It's still very new. There are a lot of consumers we haven't reached yet, and a lot of opportunity to introduce people to these core, the Jack and Coke and Jack and Coke Zero Sugar before we go too far into other ideas.
Lucas Hendrickson: Sure. Well, again, Khalil, Maureen, thanks for helping bring this product into the market for all of us to enjoy and thanks for joining us Around the Barrel.
Khalil Younes: Thank you.
Maureen Brekka: Thank you very much.
Lucas Hendrickson: Thanks for checking out this episode of Around the Barrel. You can find archived episodes of Around the Barrel on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and more, plus on the web at jackdaniels.com/podcast. And if you like what you hear, please follow, rate and review while you're at it. Cheers, y'all, and join us next time for more conversations Around the Barrel.
Your friends at Jack Daniel's remind you to drink responsibly. Jack Daniel's and Old No. 7 are registered trademarks, copyright 2024, Jack Daniel's. Tennessee Whiskey, 40% alcohol by Volume, 80 proof. Distilled and bottled by Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around the Barrel is intended for listeners 21 years of age and older.
