Robert Horry: We kind of hated Muggsy's team, but it wasn't because of what happened in the game, it was before the game. They were walking the arena. They all had these nice fitted suits on, they had these sunglasses on, like this team is so cool, I hate them.
Lucas Hendrickson: This is the voice of Robert Horry, a seven time NBA champion, as he will readily tell you. He's talking about Muggsy Bogues, the legendary NBA point guard who may have been short in height, but apparently long on style. Bogues and Horry recently partnered with Jack Daniel's for an event called NBA Legends Camp, where contest winners got a chance to hang out with the two NBA stalwarts in Lynchburg, you know, the place where they're going to put the next NBA expansion franchise...at least according to the ads. They sat down with us to talk about the current state of the NBA, how it differs from when they played back in the day, and how they both prefer to sip Jack Daniel's at home. They also engaged in a little good-natured trash talk, perfectly suited for both around the rim and Around the Barrel. Welcome back to Around the Barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniel's. I'm your host, Lucas Hendrickson. If there's one thing that's missing from the pastoral setting of Lynchburg, Tennessee, it's the presence of a professional sports franchise. Let's face it, a state-of-the-art basketball arena would fit perfectly in a town with exactly one stoplight. Postgame traffic would be a breeze. Obviously, we're having some fun with this idea and it's a great thing NBA legends like Robert Horry and Muggsy Bogues are willing to go along the ride with us. We had our chat at the Motlow House, the current home of the Tennessee Squire's Association, in a building that would look great with an NBA championship banner hanging from it.
Muggsy: Hi, I'm Muggsy Bogues from Baltimore Maryland, reside in Charlotte, North Carolina, played 14 years in the NBA. I'm a former NBA player. I'm now serving as an ambassador for the NBA as well as the Charlotte Hornets, and it's so excited to be here with Jack Daniel's and the partnership with the NBA.
Robert: Hi, I'm Robert Horry. I am from Andalusia, Alabama and Lynchburg, Tennessee reminds me of my little small town. So, I played 16 seasons in the NBA with the Houston Rockets, 7 with the Los Angeles Lakers, 5 with the San Antonio Spurs, I won seven championships. And now I'm also an ambassador for the NBA, love being one because we get to do cool events like this with Jack Daniel's.
Lucas: Robert Horry, Muggsy Bogues. Thank you for joining us Around the Barrel.
Muggsy: Thanks for having us.
Robert: Yes, it's cool. Very cool.
Lucas: So right off the jump, hopefully you've seen the ads that Jack Daniel's has placed out there. We've been lobbying it for all year long. We feel like we laid down the groundwork pretty well. So the first question is this, do you think Lynchburg is going to get an NBA expansion team?
Muggsy: Well, I think they might be on the list, probably down the list a little bit. Yeah, you know probably Vegas or Seattle would be the first two to get one.
Lucas: That's true. Robert what do you think?
Robert: Anything is possible, you know, Jack Daniel's is sold in a hundred fifty countries and they get the support of that. You never know. You could like do a big rallying cry, next thing you know, you're building a stadium. You have the Number 7 team here.
Lucas: You just never know. Yeah that's the trick, would all the players wear number 7? At that point it'd be hard tell the roster. Or 27 or maybe 150. On a serious note though. Tell us about what you're doing here in Lynchburg this weekend with the NBA Legends Camp.
Muggsy: Well, on behalf of the NBA and Jack Daniel's, you know the formal partnership, they created a campaign this year during All-Star weekend and they gave fans the opportunity to engage with one another, but they also got an official campaign for them to have the ability to come down and take a great tour in Lynchburg and have an opportunity to spend time with Robert and myself, on and off the court. I'm just having a fun time here in Lynchburg learning a little more about what you know, Jack Daniel's is all about as well as a skill set that we have and we bring to the table.
Lucas: Sure, Robert, how did you get drafted, if you will, into doing this kind of thing?
Muggsy: Well, I look at the situation. I remember when I first saw one of the ads with Jack Daniel's, I was telling my girlfriend I was like "Number 7...they should use me because I have seven championships." That's why I got roped into this. That's what I'm assuming. That's what I tell myself. But it was just cool. I was you know, being a part of the NBA family it's such a great ordeal for me and and to have the ability to come here to Lynchburg and be a part has been makes me feel so special. So I'm just proud to be here. I'm just happy the NBA chose me. I'm hoping it's because the tie-in with the Number 7 and my seven NBA championships and able to come and have some fun.
Lucas: If it wasn't then, it is now.
Robert: I put that out there for future reference so in case they want to do something later on down the line with me.
Lucas: There's this Fantasy Camp portion of this of the weekend, tell me about how that's going to work out. You've got some sweepstakes winners that have won their way into this event. What do you guys do, are you going along with the tour and just kind of hanging out and getting to see all that Lynchburg is, from Miss Mary Bobo's and the barrel houses and the distillery itself? What is your interaction with those teams going to be like?
Muggsy: Well, we're gonna coach, and also gonna probably watch the, see some skill sets from these guys. Well, it's just amazing the experience that Jack Daniel's is giving these kids. I mean these individuals, you know, you got two winners. They have the ability to bring four of their friends with them to come down here and experience this unbelievable opportunity with Robert and myself. So we're looking forward to engaging with them, teach them a little bit about what we do and what we did, also they learn about what Jack Daniel's is all about and just have a lot of fun and that's what we're here to do.
Robert: See Muggsy's being nice. It's really gonna be a competitive action, my team vs. Muggsy's team to see who can talk the most trash, you know, Muggsy played in the East, I played in the West, so it's kind of an East vs. West bout it here who can pick the best team, you know, probably gonna be me, I'm not even gonna lie, you know, so, you know Muggsy doesn't know that I have the eye for talent. He doesn't know that, but he's about to see that, and after he sees that he's gonna go back and tell the people at the Charlotte Hornets, you know, what you really need to hire Robert because he beat the brakes off me down in Lynchburg, Tennessee. So he has an eye for talent.
Lucas: So how much coaching up are you able to do with these guys, you know, especially after some touring around the facilities and could have some great down-home cooking at Miss Mary Bobo's here coming up, how much strategizing and determining skill sets are you going to be able to have before they actually get out on the court?
Robert: See I'm not going to say, because Muggsy is going to try to steal it. I'm just tell my team one thing, "moderation," everything in moderation. Moderation and just win, baby.
Lucas: That's a good way to approach life in all facets.
Muggsy: Well, you know, of course they're going with the meeting they're going to have a little sip taste, a little testing. I hope that our players don't join that because it's going to be a little difficult for me to implement my strategy what I have, you know, I once was a coach, I have a few plans, a few plays I want to implement with these guys and I'm gonna look at my talent first before I course put them in a situation where they can be successful.
Lucas: Can you teach the triangle in a day and a half?
Muggsy: The triangle is gone these days.
Robert: You know teaching is easy when you have someone that knows how to teach. I can teach you know, so I'm just saying I can I could train four puppies to run the triangle.
Lucas: And that leads me into you know, just kind of talk a little bit about about the league in about about the NBA these days, you each both played double digit seasons in the league and also with multiple teams, Muggsy you came in 1987, Robert you in 1992. What do you see are the primary differences between the NBA then and the NBA now?
Muggsy: Well the rules. The rules changed, which allowed the game to change. Back when we played the ball went inside first and then came out. Today the ball starts from behind that arc. We had power forwards, we got stretch forwards as well as stretch 5's. So in that regards it changed, the physicality a little bit changed, but the game, I enjoy watching the game today. You've got a lot of ball movement, when we played it was more two guys playing, three guys lifting. So the game has sped up and it made it even more exciting. Talent level, I wouldn't say I wouldn't go as far as to say there was more talent because I think the four years when we was, a lot of guys doing that went to school, I think that kind of allowed us to become a little more mature once we went to the NBA, So in that regard, I think that's where the difference is and that aspect of it but the game of today, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful game to watch.
Lucas: Robert. What do you think about this?
Robert: It's a fast game, its a way faster game, you know, the teams are putting up 100 plus points a game and it's totally different where it's all predicated on shooting threes where we were predicated on playing defense, you know, we look at if you can hold a team under 90 points you would win. Now, they look if you can score over a hundred and ten points you would win. It's just totally changed, I still love basketball, I love watching the guys play, there's just so much talent, you know you look at the how the guys have learned from the guys of the past like we learned from the Bill Russells, the Larry Birds, the Muggsy Bogues. And now these guys have learned from the Muggsy Bogues, the Robert Horrys, and the game just keeps expanding and maturing and multiplying and ways of going abroad, you know, we probably had a couple guys that play in a league from out of the country now half the teams are made from, you know, guys from out of the country, so the game is just global now and that's the key word about basketball. The brand is is great. The NBA is doing a great job expanding the brand. So I'm just happy about it and just hoping the next step is, you know expansion. Like I said earlier, putting up in the team here in Lynchburg.
Lucas: Well, it's so you have that on-court changes that have happened over time obviously, but also the way teams come together through free agency and the changes in the college rules, you know there and I've got to think that the coaching approaches are a little bit different and there's also a fan expectation that has kind of changed in the way things are approached. So how has that, not only while you were playing but as you are observers of the game from the outside in now, how is that affected the overall style and playing approach of those teams?
Muggsy: Well, you know, the guys became more engaged and understand the partnership with the NBA and you know to see the collective bargaining did an excellent job in terms of getting a fair deal. A lot of teams were able to operate, you know, you have now a share pull with some of the smaller market with bigger markets, and then allowed them to compete. Free agency now can move, choose wherever they go, so it kind of opened up the door for certain markets to compete with the bigger markets, the smaller markets I should say. The game is always going to keep evolving, as Robert alluded to the game become more global, you know, we used to, when I came in it was only six international players. We got over a hundred and fifty players now, so that's how big the game has becoming, you know, you gotta love what the commissioner David Stern has done. And now with Adam Silver's vision and the way he's wanting to take this game. I wouldn't even go as far as to say we won't probably be playing an international league, a World game or World League in the years to come.
Lucas: Robert, as you mentioned already, you've got a hand and a half of NBA championship rings, seven titles with three teams. You are known as the consummate sixth man, best guy coming off the bench and just really giving a spark to those teams, especially as the playoffs went along you are 7-0 in finals, what how do you think the role of sixth man has changed in the modern NBA?
Muggsy: Sixth man, it hasn't really changed. You know, I think the sixth man now is depending on coming out and scoring, not playing any defense, just scoring, you know you look at a lot of the sixth men back in the day that won the award. They did everything, they came out whatever the team needed at the time. You need someone to get a big stop. They got a stop, you need a guy to hit a big shot, they hit a big shot. You know, it's just one of those things where you had a utility guy, he filled in for exactly what you need, and I think now when you look at guys and say okay the sixth man, we need a spark, and they think spark means offensively, you know back in the day when we came on, a spark could be a big block or a good rebound, a steal, even just a simple diving on the floor and saving a basketball, We're igniting the team to go out and play better. But you know, it all depends on what the team needs from me. I think a sixth man has to understand his role and it says like, okay you need me to do this, this, and this, I'm going to do this, this, and this, and they just go on out and expand and shoot threes. I look at you know, one of my favorite sixth men is Lou Williams and you know the way he's able to come out and score and and not be able to be stopped. I mean everybody in the world knows he's going left, he always goes left and scores, so you know he's just an amazing player and how to these guys do it night in and night out.
Lucas: You play the exact same number of games as these guys played, you know, during a regular season when you were in the league but is the grind harder or easier these days for your average, not that there's anything as an average NBA player, but you know, is it harder or easier lifestyle-wise for those guys?
Muggsy: Well, I don't want to say easier lifestyle, but you know the grind as you just alluded to, it's not as much as it was we played, you know training camp was two weeks, two a days, and you know these guys, training camp is only three days, you know and then you go right into the preseason. Yeah, so they kind of shorten it and it kind of changed how guys now prepared for them during the summer, how they get ready for the season and I think that has a lot to do it.
Lucas: Yeah. What do you think Robert?
Robert: It's it's a big difference in the way the approach is, I felt like for us, the grind was a little bit tougher because like Muggsy said, he had all this time for preparing for the season, you know, you had to do two weeks of training camp. Then you had to do all these exhibition games. And if you think about it now like the knowledge of the body is so much better now for rehab and getting yourself back, you know with the fluids and nutrients in your body that I think you know, they have it a little bit easier, you know, back when we play was like, oh, what do you do? You drink some Jack Daniel's after the game, that'll put your nutrients back in your body, get you ready for the next game. But it's totally different in that sense and travel, we flew commercial where my first year after that we kind of, we didn't like that much but these guys now have private planes they have, you know, a masseuse on the plane and a chiropractor on the plane they have a trainer on the plane. So I don't know why these guys are complaining there's too many games, you're getting pampered enough, you know, but I think they just need them to do the way they're bringing insight to the game and you know, the way social media has blown up the game and I think they should be, you know, this is my little pet peeve where you can have a guy who goes out and says, "Oh I'm not playing due to rest." I'm like, "Rest? Back when we played if we found out you was getting rested you could get fined." And I don't like it because I always look at it as a point where you have this one family saves up all their money to go see Muggsy Bogues play, and all of a sudden you get to the game and Muggsy's sitting on the sidelines because he says, "Oh tonight I'm not feeling it, I want to rest" and I think it's not fair to the fans in that sense.
Muggsy: Especially when you're on the road.
Lucas: Yeah, that's true. That's very true. Because you've got you've got families are saving up an entire, you know, however much time and money to go see their favorite team. And if the superstar isn't on the court there is that disappointment level obviously speaking of social media, you brought it up. What do you think your times in the NBA would have been like had social media been around when you were playing?
Robert: For me? I would be the same because I wouldn't have done any social media. I just think it's a distraction and I just think it gets in the way of what my goal is, you know, I remember in the playoffs. My mom would get mad at me because I wouldn't talk to her during the playoffs. I wouldn't talk to anybody unless you lived inside my four walls of my house. I didn't talk to you because I cut out all outside noise and and my mom was like "Baby can't you call?" "Mom, I ain't got time to think about you right now Im thinking about the playoffs." And so that would be my attitude, my approach. I know social media is great for a lot of kids' brands, but for me, I just, you know, like LeBron does during the playoffs, he wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't do it all year because you know, my brand is the NBA, the NBA is my livelihood, NBA is my craft and I want to be as good as possible, you know during the summer, I might tweet and send pictures all I want but soon as that season starts, I will cut it all out, all done.
Lucas: Muggsy what are you thinking?
Muggsy: Yeah. It had been a challenge for me as well, and for me, I'm not the one that let everybody know when I'm doing, there some things I like to be inclusive. But I know why folks use social media. It could be as Robert alluded to, your brand, you're trying to introduce your brand out there to the world. But for me, I'm low key and I just like to go about my business and during the playoffs you gotta shut it down because you gotta be focused on what the task is at hand and you know, just a matter of letting folks into what you're doing and I'm more of a private person.
Lucas: Yeah, Muggsy, it is almost impossible to have a conversation about your career without talking about your height, or stature shall we say, I loved watching you play back in the day because you were so quick and and your court vision seemed to be just it was amazing. It was astounding. You know, you had this sense on the court of how plays we're going to develop in what ways was being 5'3" an advantage for you when you were playing?
Muggsy: Well the advantage was that I had the ability to play the game and I knew what my strengths and weaknesses was and didn't really look at it and think about my size, it was about the position and about what came along with that position, you know point guard, you know, you're pretty much the extension of the coach. So you got to pretty much understand how to communicate with the guys, understanding who can take such a little more than others, and at the same time how to make guys better as well as being able to keep guys honest with people that you're playing against. You know, I had that instinct and I think I recognize that God gave me that gift and you know for me to play the game just like a, you know, a guy six five, six eight or whoever, you know, I felt like, you know, I was just as equal as them so I really never gave a consideration of you know, height-wise, that was more or less for the inquisitive minds of people that looked at me and kind of looked at me differently.
Lucas: Yeah. How do you think the role of point guard has evolved in the NBA?
Muggsy: Well today, there's more scoring, its more of a scoring point guard mentality. Back then we had we had a little of both, guys that kind of ran a team, scored at the same time. But mostly the point guards, they ran the team and they was, the two guard was mostly the one that was called upon to score as well as the guys on the block but it all depends on that individual, the team that you had. So with the point guard responsibility today is definitely you got to have that versatility. You got to be able to score the basketball. You have to run a team as well as make guys around you better, but more so, you got to hit that ball behind that three block.
Lucas: You already mentioned kind of the East-West dynamic of what could be coming up at the Legends Camp this weekend. Do you guys have any specific memories of playing against each other back in the day?
Robert: I know, I don't think Muggsy knows this but you know, we kind of hated Muggsy's team. And it wasn't because of what happened in the game, it was before the game. They would walk in the arena. They all had these nice fitted suits on. They had sunglasses on like this team is so cool. I hate this, and the bad part is like you can't hate him because they were such nice guys. They were good looking brothers and it was just so cool that when he walks in the arena everybody's looking to look, they just they brought a certain maturity to the game, a certain style. And even though I would never tell Muggsy this now to this day, but I just hated him, but not a bad way because they just look so good doing what they do. You know, that's when you get jealous of somebody and then when you try to do it, like I don't look as good as them. I just I love watching Muggsy play and I love watching the Hornets. I always tell people that there's a lot of people have gotten his league and Grandmama was one of the hardest guys I have ever had to guard and that team they had back then was so talented, so cool, and I'm telling him that I hated him. That's the one thing I have to say now. I'm getting it off my chest right now. I feel better.
Lucas: How about you, Muggsy?
Muggsy: And one thing, I mean every time we visited Houston it felt like, you know when you're going to the West Coast and you're going to warm city, right, you know you kind of let your hair down a little bit you feeling good about yourself. But Houston was one of the most difficult teams that we had to play against. Robert and Sam was, they was fresh, maybe rookies, and they came right Kenny Smith and those guys and Sam was a good friend of mine, you know being back from Baltimore right? And we always used to talk about the team. His name Big Shot was for a reason, you know, it was a situation where we were up by one and I don't even think he remembered us. We was up by one. It was like 55 seconds left in the game. Okay, they call the timeout. We thought the play was going to Akeem we go down to Akeem I kind of hesitated trying to you know, I always like to leave my man to go try to sneak around. Okay, so I decided to go down and help on Akeem. They rotated over, left Big Shot Bob right open, before he had the name, left him open. He nailed the game winner, and we lost that game in Houston and that was a game that we felt like during that year we were starting to try to make some noise and trying to make...
Lucas: What season with this?
Muggsy: This was '92, '93.
Lucas: Okay, so he was brand new in the league.
Muggsy: Brand new, he was a rookie, he was a freshman in the league and that was the year that, first we had Larry Johnson came in and we had Alonzo Mourning so now we had two national type players that start to gain a lot of respect and we felt like we was trying to make some noise, but that kind of, you know it, that dampened your spirit a little bit but you know later on that night we kind of forgot about it.
Robert: Because they left looking good.
Lucas: So let's get back to the, you know, the company for whom we're all sitting around here talking. What are your preferred ways of enjoying Jack Daniel's responsibly? Do you have a favorite cocktail? Do you, are you kind of "drink it neat" kind of guys? What's the, what's the preferred method?
Robert: I'm a neat type of guy. I like to enjoy the taste. I don't like any mixers in mine, I just like to really sit back and get me, here's the funny part, I made my girlfriend go and buy the ice trays where you make the one big block of ice? So I can sit there and act like I'm in...with my cocktail and watching T.V. and pour it over that one big block of ice, but I just like it like that though.
Lucas: Sure, Muggsy what about you?
Muggsy: I'm similar, yeah, I'm pretty much similar to that you know, it just it just a matter of again enjoying that taste, you know I got my cigar, got my Jack...
Lucas: Now is this both of your first time here in Lynchburg.
Muggsy: Yes.
Robert: Yes.
Lucas: What are you looking forward to learning about that? Not only the distillery, but the town itself obviously since it's on the verge of getting an expansion team. You probably want to learn a bit more about the community. What are you looking forward to seeing this weekend?
Muggsy: I just think that the craft, you know the way it's made and how its stored because I know you have to store it in these barrels and I just want to see where it's stored so maybe you know, I can sneak back in and go take a barrel home with me.
Lucas: Somebody could probably hook you up with that, for a certain price.
Robert: For me, just the way the product is made and the longevity of this product and the popularity of this product across the world is amazing. So I'm just excited to see how the process is done.
Lucas: How about you Muggsy?
Muggsy: I'm just going to be a sponge. Yeah. I'm gonna be a sponge. I'm just going to soak up all the information and enjoy, you know, the tour and what they show me, because you know again like you just alluded to, you know seeing a product made from scratch, knowing that every drop of the whiskey, the liquor, Jack Daniel's has been made here in Lynchburg, and to see it come off that barrel, you know, and that wood and the grain off of it and the craftsmanship.
Lucas: Yeah, you know that history that's in that barrel.
Muggsy: I'm definitely looking forward to that.
Lucas: That's very cool. What do you guys think that we can expect from the 2018-2019 NBA season? We haven't really seen a lot of movement with the free agency activities we're expecting over the next several weeks. We don't know where certain players are going to land. What do you think fans can expect to see from the league this coming season?
Robert: I think everybody's going to try to take down the giant, which is the Golden State Warriors. So every team now is going to try to build a super team, thats the term that's coming to play now. I remember when we played people forget, there was a super team. Pippin, Jordan, Rodman, Kukoc, that was a super team, people didn't talk about it, but it was a super team. It was put together. It wasn't like. "Oh I'm going here, I'm going there." But still though they were just lucky enough to draft the right pieces and make a super team. So it's going to be exciting to see where you know, those three big key pieces go. I'm talking about, you know, LeBron, PG and Kawhi, what happens in that sense, but I'm excited and every, you know, we just had the draft last night. So it's always the excitement around this time to see where people are going to go, who's getting drafted and what's going to happen but it's got lots gonna be able to tell in a couple weeks when somebody gets here.
Lucas: Especially since there was so much movement last night as well. Someone's guys couldn't even get their hat on straight before they were having to go someplace else. So, you know, there's still a lot of pieces that are up in the air obviously as far as how teams are going to shake out. What do you think Muggsy?
Muggsy: That's exactly right, you made by going to be chasing the big dog, Golden State, trying to see how they could put themselves in position and knock them down and the three piece is going to be key. You know where they land is going to be the key and you might see them all together, but it's going to be difficult to see that but yeah, and two of the pieces may not be enough, depends on where they go, so it all depends on you know, where they go and you know decision that one one guy really makes sure that going to determine you know, how it all shake out but it's going to be exciting.
Lucas: Well, certainly the much more interesting action is going to happen this weekend at the NBA legends Camp here in Lynchburg. Robert Horry, Muggsy Bogues, we thank you for joining us Around the Barrel.
Robert: Thanks for having us.
Muggsy: Thanks for having us.
Lucas: Around the Barrel is the official podcast of the Jack Daniel Distillery. Follow the podcast on the web at JackDaniels.com/podcast. If you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate, and review at Apple Podcasts or wherever you gather your on-demand audio. Always remember, with great podcast and great whiskey, please enjoy responsibly. Join us next time for more conversations Around the Barrel, your friends a Jack Daniel's remind you to drink responsibly. Jack Daniel's and Old Number 7 are registered trademarks, copyright 2018, Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof, distilled and bottled by Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around the Barrel is intended for listeners 21 years of age and older.
