Around the Barrel - Transcript: Ep29 Fawn Weaver

 

Fawn Weaver: We said from day one, and it's actually a part of our company principles. Our responsibility was to raise up the legacy of one man without harming the legacy of another.

 

Lucas Hendrickson: Names are important. Placing them in their proper context in the telling of a story, maybe even more so. And when you get the chance to amplify that story via whatever resources become available to you, it becomes even more paramount to do so.

 

On this episode, we talk with Fawn Weaver, the CEO and co-founder of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey and the driving force behind elevating the story of Nearest Green, a name some thought lost to history but who we now know taught young Jack Daniel how to make whiskey.

 

We take a look at the extraordinary elements of Uncle Nearest and Mr. Jack’s relationship from more than a century ago, how those ties continue to knit together the fabric of the communities surrounding Lynchburg and how Fawn thinks we should look to the legacies of both men together as we sit and sip Around the Barrel.

 

Welcome back to Around The Barrel, the official podcast from the makers of Jack Daniel’s. I’m your host, Lucas Hendrickson. Right now, in this unique and necessary moment in history, it’s never been more important to speak plainly and with intent.

 

So we start this episode of a branded podcast for a world-famous spirits maker with this statement of fact: Nathan “Nearest” Green, a formerly enslaved black man, taught Jack Daniel how to make what has come to be known as Tennessee whiskey, and was, in actuality and practicality, the first “Master Distiller” of the Jack Daniel Distillery.

 

While that stated fact can stand by itself, proudly, as a part of both American and spirits-making history, the story surrounding the relationship between Uncle Nearest and Mr. Jack, and their descendants, is vibrant, positive and continues to this day.

 

That story is what drew Fawn Weaver, a writer and entrepreneur, into the orbit of the whiskey world. She learned of Green’s impact on the distillery through a New York Times story in 2016, but sensed there was even more to that story than could be displayed within a limited number of column inches.

 

Her instincts, her research and her tenacity in wanting to tell Nearest Green’s story has not only brought about a better understanding of his role in the history of the Distillery, but also helps shine a light on how people from different races, backgrounds and circumstances could interact positively then and how we can learn from that now.

 

We spoke with Fawn on May 12, 2020, less than two weeks before the death of George Floyd while in police custody, an event that sparked protests across the United States and around the world.

 

It is, assuredly, a tense and delicate time for needed conversations dealing with race. But Nearest Green’s story is one that deserves to be heard and held up as a positive example, and we’re grateful for Fawn’s help in telling it now.

 

Fawn: Hi, my name is Fawn Weaver. I am the CEO and founder of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey. I am originally from Pasadena, California. I now reside in Lynchburg, Tennessee.

 

Lucas: Fawn Weaver, thanks for joining us Around the Barrel.

 

Fawn: Thank you for having me.

 

Lucas: Absolutely. So, you are in Lynchburg these days. What's a normal day, if there's any such thing for you, in Lynchburg, Tennessee right now?

 

Fawn: Lynchburg is – it's not a ghost town. I won't say that, but when we have friends over, we're still social distancing. And we're lucky that we all have front porches, right, where we sit around and sip on some whiskey and still have our rocking chairs, you know, a few feet apart from each other. 

 

So, I think we're pretty fortunate in that, but we don't have the packed square right now. Harley Davidson riders will come in because there's the Harley shop down in the square. And they'll come in and you just watch them looking around like, “Man, this is a ghost town right now.”

 

So, I know all of the businesses there will be very, very excited when this is all over and they can start getting customers again.

 

Lucas: Sure. There is something to be said about the regularly idyllic nature of Lynchburg, but this has gotta be a little bit even more so, you know, quiet than what they're used to certainly. But we are all hoping that we can kind of get some more answers and get this down the road a little sooner than later. 

 

What was it about the story of Nearest Green? How did you come to know about him initially, and what was it about his story and his role in kind of the formation and popularization of Tennessee whiskey as a whole that drew you into wanting to help tell his story?

 

Fawn: You know, I actually read it on the cover of the New York times. So, I think when a lot of people first learned about it is the same time I learned about it. I believe that Brown-Forman put out sort of a pitch to the New York Times editor Clay Risen.

 

And the story as I understand it was intended to be, you know, ten different topics that tied into Black History Month. And this particular writer, this journalist – he honed in on one I think that was right around the center.

 

And my conversations with him – said what he recalled it to be was something to the extent of, “It has long been said that Jack Daniel was taught by a white preacher and a distiller, but it's more likely that his slave Nearest Green” – and Clay just, I mean, he locked in on that.

 

And all of a sudden, all of his research and work around what was this original pitch became about this singular figure.

 

The challenge is – and you've been to Lynchburg, so you know this. If you do not live in Lynchburg or if the people of Lynchburg do not trust you, if you don't spend time there, you're not getting anything out of them.

 

So, you have a story that was essentially written from a distance. So, you have someone writing it from New York, talking to, you know, whatever few people in Lynchburg he could talk to. So, what consequently happened is I read the story at the same time as everybody else. And the story, the headline, was “Jack Daniel Embraces a Secret Ingredient: Help from a Slave.”

 

Now, remember I said that the pitch was for a story to come out Black History Month, right? This story was coming out at the end of June in 2016. So, in light of the political rhetoric that was going on that was dividing our country by race and that's when the story comes out.

 

And so what ended up happening is I read the story, and my first reaction was, “Holy crap, as an African American, I've known that we've been in this country for 400 years this year.” But as you probably know, we were not allowed to patent. We weren't allowed to trademark. We weren't allowed to have ownership of innovation and things of that nature.

 

And so there's a lot of brands, a lot of things in this country, where you would have had an African American at the beginning of it, but we can't prove it. And so that there was someone who was trying to prove that there was an African American at the very beginning of one of the most beloved American brands, it didn't matter to me that it was whiskey.

 

Lucas: Right.

 

Fawn: That was what was fascinating. It was that, “I'm reading a story on the cover of a newspaper in Singapore. And the only reason it's relevant in Singapore is because the brand itself is one of the most beloved in the world.”

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Fawn: In my 40 years of living, as of that time, there was never an iconic brand that I could point to and say, “There was an African American at the beginning of that.”

 

It didn't matter what his role was. If it was any role of significance at the beginning of it, it was something that I thought should be celebrated. And it was something I was celebrating just when I was reading it.

 

And I remember I had the newspaper in front of me. My husband is on the other side of the table and he's watching my face as I'm reading this. And apparently my eyes got big as saucers. He starts going, “Babe, babe, what's wrong? What's wrong? Is everything okay?” And he’s thinking something another 9/11 attack type of thing had happened in the states.

 

And I turned the page around and the cover – not only was it that particular headline, but it had this picture of Jack Daniel, who most of us I think are familiar with what he looks like. It's a pretty iconic picture. It's this picture of him and an African American to his right.

 

Now, what I think most people missed but I caught immediately was the center of that photo was ceded to an African American. You have to think about how extraordinarily rare that would have been. We were usually not in photos. And if we were, we were off in the corner, in the way back, right?

 

And you have, I'd say arguably, one of the most famous white men in American history ceding the center of the photo to a black man. And so that was my first sort of thought, that, “Hm. There is something more to this story than what the article mentions.”

 

And in the article, there was so little there. It was more like – I don't want to say folklore. It was more like oral history that had been passed down. 

 

But even if you looked at the one African American that was identified as being a descendant of Nearest Green, when you look at that, even listening to what he said or reading what he said, when they asked him, “Well, how are you related to Nearest?” he said, “I don't know. My mama just told me I was kin.”

 

So if that's what you have to go off of, it’s a stretch. So, unfortunately what happened is because you really had to stretch to be able to tell the story with such little information available, people began filling it in themselves.

 

And what began as simply information very quickly went down a very negative road on social media, Twitter, Instagram, all the rest of that stuff. And they began just ripping Jack apart, coming to conclusions that were not in the article.

 

And I at that time – I'm a bit of a research nerd, a research junkie. Now, people say I'm a historian. I wouldn't necessarily say that. But I will say that I can go into a rabbit hole of information and come out with more than most people.

 

So, I ordered “Jack Daniel's Legacy” and wondering, “Would it mention, you know, a Negro or a slave or an African American?” I fully did not expect for Nearest Green to be mentioned by name and was not only surprised, but pleasantly so, that from the very early pages of Jack's biography, Nearest Green and his boys are mentioned over and over and over again.

 

That being juxtaposed against everything that was being said about him in the public as it related to this story, I knew people had it wrong. And I wanted to see if I was right about that.

 

Lucas: So those were the two things: that New York Times article and then this book, “Jack Daniel’s Legacy,” which was published in what, the late ‘60s?

 

Fawn: 1967. 

 

Lucas: So, that set you down the path, obviously, of trying to find out more about Nearest Green and his role. You've uncovered a lot. You have relocated to Lynchburg. Who was Nearest Green, and what was his relationship with Jack Daniel like as you have kind of uncovered and pieced his life story together?

 

Fawn: Yeah. So, let me go back just a quick second to that biography. So, it's written 1967, but let's put some context around it because I still think the book itself is extraordinary. So, you have a book that's written in 1967, height of the civil rights era, right?

 

In Lynchburg, Tennessee, you have a white reporter from Tuscaloosa, Alabama who comes up to write the authoritative biography of arguably the most famous American whiskey maker of that time and still remains the most famous of this time.

 

He comes up to write this biography, and he is doing the research for it in 1965, 1966. So, the people who he's interviewing are all those who knew Jack the best. His four great nephews had taken over the distillery. They were running it.

 

All four of them were interviewed, his nephew Lem and all of his friends, employees, anyone who touched him, who knew him. And Jack, because of who he was and this relationship, Nearest and his boys were mentioned in “Jack Daniel's Legacy,” his biography, more times than Jack’s own family. That's not something you do back then.

 

Lucas: No.

 

Fawn: You don't even do it now.

 

Lucas: Very true.

 

Fawn: But you certainly would not do it back then. And so the reason – a part of the reason why that story touched me so much I think is because of where we were in 2016 at that time. We’re seeing, you know, it's definitely the most divided our country has been during my generation.

 

And so seeing that against this backdrop of, “Holy crap, they figured out how to love one another in the 19th century in a town called Lynchburg? How is this possible?”

 

And this idea that there was a friendship between this African American family and this white family during this period of time in this particular town in Lynchburg – I mean, it got my wheels spinning. 

 

So, I came chasing a story of love. And when I arrived, I went straight to the library. And we were in the library for a few hours, my husband and I, trying to look up a few things. And before we left, right toward the tail end of it all, this woman walks through the door and the assistant librarian beelines lines over to her. She knew exactly who this person was.

 

And long story short, because we now know the backstory, is somebody called this woman who is Jack's eldest descendant and said, “Hey, there's somebody here doing research on your family. You need to get to the library.” And she came down to the library. We spoke for a few seconds. 

 

And think about this. 2016. So, this is on Sept. 1. I'm in the library, and you have an African American couple from Los Angeles. One is a New York times bestselling author. One is an executive vice president for Sony Pictures. The town already knew we were there, we later found out, because we rented a home that belonged to Steve May.

 

So he, you know, has a homeplace for Jack Daniel’s. So, the person who was renting it to us through Vrbo or something looked up who we were. And so the town knew who was coming to town, but they didn't know why. 

 

So, of course, to find out that we were in town and this is the story we were researching, given what social media was saying about Jack at that time and really dragging not only Jack through the mud but also his family, there is absolutely no way that you would think that this couple from Hollywood – ironically, I was actually born in Hollywood, but this couple from Hollywood would be coming to a town called Lynchburg to give it a fair shake.

 

Lucas: Right.

 

Fawn: What's the likelihood that that is the story? And so when she came down, it was out of concern, and I could tell that.

 

And so I remember looking into her eyes and saying to her, “I am not here to harm your family's legacy. I believe that the media has this wrong. I believe that what they are saying about Jack and Jack's family is not true, and this is why.” 

 

And I explained to her what I just shared with you about the backdrop of that book. I said, “I can tell you that I am here to dive into what I believe is a story of love. Those are the books I write. That's all I care about.

 

“And if I dive in and I do the research and I discover that Jack was not a good guy, that he was not who I believed he is based on the book, if the research shows that this was not a positive story, and he was not a good guy, I assure you that someone will come here and they will do the exact same research.

 

“And they will pull up the exact same information, and that story will be told. Nothing that happened in the dark will stay in the dark. It always comes to light. You have my word. That story will not be told by me. That's not what I write about.”

 

And she looks at me and she says, “In that case, I want to help you.” And she pulls out her cell phone and she begins to give me the names and numbers of Nearest Green's descendants. They grew up together. They sat around the dinner table. They ate together.

 

And so she left out of there, but right before she left – she was like a whirlwind coming in and out. But she said, “Hey, you know that book that you read, ‘Jack Daniel's Legacy,’ you know where he grew up? That farm and where he learned how to make whiskey from Nearest and yada, yada, yada?” She said, “You realize it's for sale.”

 

Well, why would I think a farm from the 19th century would not only be for sale, but that there would still be the house standing where Jack grew up and all the rest of this? And so she drew us out a map, but she drew us a Southern map.

 

Lucas: The landmark's probably a little esoteric, shall we say.

 

Fawn: Absolutely. So, there was not a shot in hell we were going to be able to find this farm. We gave it a try. We gave it all we had and there was absolutely no hope.

 

So, we get back to what we now know as Steve May’s house, and I get a call on my cell phone. It's from a woman with legitimately the most Southern accent I had ever heard up to that point. Now, having lived in Lynchburg for all this time, now I've heard some, but at that time, I could barely understand what she was saying.

 

But I did hear her say, “You met my cousin at the library,” and she introduced herself. “I'm Sherrie Moore.” And she says, “So, my cousin tells me you're interested in going to see the Dan Call farm. I'm happy to take you.” And she's a realtor, and so she shared that. And so we scheduled a time to go, and the next day we went to the farm.

 

And the most amazing thing is the farmers who purchased it around the same time, just a few years before “Jack Daniel's Legacy” was actually written – the farmer who purchased it – he and his wife were afraid that their only child might fall from the second floor balcony. So, they locked the access to the second floor. It was a time capsule.

 

Lucas: Wow. Okay. 

 

Fawn: The bedroom that Jack grew up in still had barrel stencil practicing from when they were still spelling whiskey with no “E” still on the wall. And the girl's bedroom up there – the last time that it had been insulated with wallpaper was October 10th, 1898.

 

Lucas: Wow. 

 

Fawn: All of the newspapers that lined the entire wall were either October 10th or October 11th, 1898. And so, I mean, when I say a time capsule, I mean a literal time capsule.

 

Lucas: Sure. A literal time capsule.

 

Fawn: But if you think about the serendipitous nature of what was happening here, I mean, what's the chances we show up, we stay at the house of a Jack Daniel employee, Jack’s eldest descendant shows up at the library who then refers us to her cousin who takes us to the original home?

 

And so we didn't come here to purchase property. But then when you're looking at something – it had been on the market for 15 months. It was overgrown. I mean, it was a wreck. And Keith and I looked at each other and we knew immediately, number one, this is American history. How remarkable.

 

But then the second thing is I told Keith, “What if I could walk these grounds and piece the story of Nearest and Jack together, feeling their spirit here on the property?” And we immediately put in an offer on the property and we bought it.

 

What we've been able to piece together since that time is number one, Nearest Green was the first master distiller for Jack Daniel distillery, was the distiller for – the only master distiller. They called them head stillers at that time. But he was the only head stiller, only master distiller, for distillery number seven.

 

And so I think for a lot of people, they don't realize that distillery number seven existed. It did. It was on that property. And the grounds are still very much so intact. The water, the spring, everything is still there.

 

When Jack lived there, it was considered district number four, distillery number seven. But by the time Jack purchased it, the IRS had come in, redrawn the lines and decided that everybody else in district number four would be able to keep their distillery numbers except, for some reason, Jack.

 

They changed his from number seven to number 16, which was a problem. So, Nearest Green was the master distiller for distillery number seven. 

 

He was also the teacher of Daniel. He was his mentor. I do believe that Dan Call – because in his biography, when Dan Call introduces Nearest Green to Jack, he introduces him by saying, “This is Uncle Nearest. He is the best whiskey maker I know of.” That statement means something because there were 16 other distilleries in a four mile radius.

 

So, in order for the best whiskey and him to be the best whiskey maker, it meant he had to have been doing something that was different from everybody else. And there had to be a reason that the whiskey coming out of distillery number seven was the best. And the question became, “Why? What is that?” 

 

And that is what Dan Call was asking Nearest to teach Jack. But what he also says in the biography is, “And I will show Jack everything I know as well.” And so I do believe that Jack was taught by both of these men.

 

The difference is that what distinguishes a Tennessee whiskey from what was known then as Kentucky bourbon – they’re both bourbons. Tennessee whiskey is a straight bourbon. I know, you know, a lot of Jack Daniel fans will not be happy about this, but it is a straight bourbon recipe.

 

However, because you take a traditional bourbon and you do a process that we show originated in West Africa –  so to this day in West Africa, what they cut down trees for the most is wood fuel and charcoal. They use charcoal to purify their food and to filter their water. It's what they were doing then.

 

And so you can think of what whiskey tasted like straight out of a barrel back then before we perfected how to make it, right? Think about how it tasted back then.

 

And you have these slaves coming in from West Africa that are being put in charge of the stills and being told to make whiskey. And they're sipping it and going, “What the hell is this?” But then immediately, “Oh, we know how to smooth that out.”

 

So, the only difference between Tennessee whiskey, truly, other than geography and some really not important things – the only true distinction between the two is a process called the Lincoln County process.

 

And when distillery number seven was in district number four, it was Lincoln County. So, you have this taking a traditional bourbon and filtering it through sugar maple charcoal, and it doesn't add anything.

 

Lucas: Nope.

 

Fawn: It removes. So, that's why it still keeps the distinction of a straight bourbon is because it doesn't add anything, but it does remove impurities and congeners and fusil oils and those things that give you a headache, right?

 

And so you had someone who was doing this. And throughout Tennessee, we see that there were different people that were in fact using the charcoal mellowing, that actually the first time we see charcoal mellowing is in Kentucky. It's not even in Tennessee, it's in Kentucky in the 18th century.

 

But when we're seeing it there, it's literally – the whiskey is being run through only one inch of charcoal. Well, what Nearest was doing was through multiple feet of charcoal. That was significantly different.

 

And running it through very slowly so it's passing through, almost dripping through. That is what was making the difference. And that's why the whiskey coming out of distillery number seven was so extraordinary. And so we know that that piece of it Nearest taught Jack.

 

Lucas: Okay. Now, as you say, there are still Green family members living and working in Lynchburg today. Some of them still work at the distillery, correct?

 

Fawn: There are three of them. Yeah. They're all siblings: Romy, Jack and Deb.

 

Lucas: Right. Now, how did the evolution of not only your work and what you uncovered, but also the creation of the Nearest Green Distillery and also the foundation that goes along with it – how did that all take shape over the years since you’ve set down this path?

 

Fawn: Yeah. So, we were working on doing the story, and I saw it as a book. I saw it as a movie. At one point, as sort of a one off, like we do a legacy bottle. People know who he is, this would be incredible, but the more I dove into what it would take to do that, the more I was not interested.

 

And so when I was doing all the interviews, it was never, ever about whiskey. It was always the book and the movie and piecing all that stuff together.

 

Once we purchased Dan Call farm, I decided I was going to turn one of the rooms into my research room. I began hiring other historians and archeologists and archivists and genealogists, and we were all putting together documents to sort of piece together this history so it was a complete story.

 

And I was bringing all of those artifacts and all that research back to that home. So, I'm literally at the Dan Call farm every single day. Well, Sherrie, our realtor – she would come up and I would share with her all these amazing stories about her family, so Jack’s family, and what I had discovered in my own research and I'd show her artifacts.

 

And I think that one day it must have hit her that all of the things that I said, the reason why I said I was in Lynchburg, that I was not there to harm their family legacy, that I really truly was there to find this story of love that I believed existed – I think it just hit her one day that I was who I said I was.

 

And she said, “You know, if you ever decide to honor Nearest with a bottle, I'll come out of retirement to make sure you get it right.” Fast forward, she later tells us – and this was a while later. She says, “You know, whiskey’s in my blood. I've been in the family business my whole entire life.”

 

And so she had just retired – well, not just retired. She had retired I want to say about 10 years prior after 31 years of Jack Daniel Distillery. And when she retired, she was the head of whiskey operation. This is our realtor who was saying she'll come out of retirement if we decide to do this.

 

And at the time we were going back and forth, “Is it worth it?” I mean, talk about upending our lives. This is not something that all of a sudden, we were here for a short period of time to write a story and now we get to go back home. It was, if you do something like this, you're probably never leaving. It was a big decision for us. Our family is back home in LA.

 

And the idea was bigger than whiskey. I will say that. Because we would have to leave everything behind, everything that we loved, to come here. The good news is we very quickly found a lot of friends that became family in Lynchburg very quickly.

 

And so it didn't feel as much of an adjustment, but the first few times we had this conversation with Sherrie, we would talk about it and then we would talk amongst ourselves and kind of come back to the conclusion of, “Let's not talk about this right now.”

 

And then I remember being with Nearest’s family in Nashville. And it was after we had been doing some research for a little bit of time. And I wanted – I brought a camera crew and we were at their church and I brought dinner and this whole thing.

 

And I said, “Let me share with you what I've learned about your family and your ancestor Nearest. And you tell me what you guys already knew through oral history and anything you might have.” And so there was this beautiful exchange for hours.

 

And then I got to the end and I said, “What is the one thing that you guys think should happen to honor your ancestor’s legacy?” And they said, “We think that his name should be on a bottle.”

 

We got back in the car and I called Sherrie from the parking lot. And my biggest concern up until that point was not the fact that we weren't familiar with the whiskey business, cause I knew I could learn any business. I'd done it probably six times prior, learning an industry.

 

My biggest concern was the amount of money I'd have to raise to pull it off. And I wasn't excited about having to do it. But from the parking lot of that church, I called Sherrie and I said, “If you will come out of retirement, I will raise the money.” And Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey was born on that day.

 

Lucas: In a parking lot.

 

Fawn: In a parking lot – oh, this will make you laugh – of a Church of Christ.

 

Lucas: Of course. Yes.

 

Fawn: The very people who put whiskey out of business during prohibition.

 

Lucas: Certainly gave it their best run, but whiskey survives.

 

Fawn: It always survives.

 

Lucas: It always does. Yeah, it truly does. Where are you now with that project? I mean, obviously there is product that exists. What’s the current state of Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey?

 

The current state is we've been embraced quite well. We're the fastest growing independent American whiskey brand in U.S. history.

 

There is no other American whiskey brand that has ever entered the market – we estimate that more than 2 million glasses of Uncle Nearest have been raised. And most of the time when they're raising them, it is a salute. It is an honoring, which is a beautiful thing to see. 

 

It was the most awarded American whiskey of 2019, period. We are currently the most awarded so far of 2020, and it's won World's Best twice in a row. It's won Double Gold San Francisco, a number of Gold San Francisco. It's doing really, really, really well. 

 

So, I guess Sherrie out of retirement was ultimately worth it. It's doing really well. And it was interesting because a former long time – actually, ironically, the former president of Jack Daniel’s sits on my board.

 

We got to know each other quite well during this process. And he came to know our team really well and to know how our company was built. Maybe about a month ago, we were working on what's called a brand triangle where you really identify different elements of a brand and a company. 

 

And we get down to the last part of this triangle. And he said – it was my leadership team on the call. And he said, “This is the hard part. This is the part where every brand stumbles. Every brand I've ever worked with, this is the part where people get tripped up.” And he said, “It's purpose. What is the purpose of Uncle Nearest?” 

 

And my whole leadership team literally started laughing and they said, “Well, we could have started here.” This is the easy part of the day for us, because it was very simple – love, honor and respect.

 

Lucas: Sure.

 

Fawn: That is how this brand was built. It was the foundation of it. We said from day one, and it's actually a part of our company principles. Our responsibility was to raise up the legacy of one man without harming the legacy of another. We have done that from day one and we continue to do that now.

 

Lucas: So, Nearest’s story has also become more woven into the official story of Jack Daniel’s distillery with additions into official tours and obviously in the visitor center there onsite. 

 

What's been your reaction to how the company, not only the parent company Brown-Forman, but the Distillery itself has woven more of his story into the fabric of the overall story of Jack Daniel?

 

Fawn: I think it's a beautiful thing. It was a necessary thing. But I think that one of the things that a lot of people miss when they're looking at how this story has been woven in is how quickly it happened. 

 

When you think about how long these things usually happen, I can tell you – president of Jack Daniel’s shows up on my doorstep at the Dan Call farm. His historian had already come. A couple days later, he’s there.

 

Lucas: Now is this our friend Mark McCallum, friend of the pod?

 

Fawn: Yeah. Mark, friend of the pod. So, that is Mark. I mean, I actually have him in my texts right now. I was texting with him before I got on this.

 

Lucas: Give him our best.

 

Fawn: I will, I will. And so Mark – he shows up literally at my doorstep. His first question to me was, “How do we make this right?”

 

I want to say two weeks later, Nelson was at the farm with the new script fully integrating – and the reason is that the story of Nearest Green and I think what a lot of people miss – the story of Nearest Green was already a part of the official story of Jack Daniel until the early ‘70s.

 

And I think that at some point when the sort of management, the operations, things of that nature began to be in Kentucky versus Lynchburg, Tennessee, this story – these are two families that were friends. And so this story being told came very natural.

 

Once the four shirtsleeve brothers, right, once they pass away – Reagor Motlow. Reagor died in ‘78 and the story stopped being told almost immediately after he passed away. And I think that there was just not a natural connection. 

 

And so if you think about this, if you don't know this backstory, if you don't know that this story was positive, if you make the same assumption that people on social media did when they first heard it in 2016, you will run from the story.

 

And I remember in the beginning, people would say to me, “Why are you being so nice to Jack Daniel’s? They left Nearest out intentionally.”

 

And I'd say, “No. I actually put myself as a businessperson comes in who purchases this company who doesn't have a connection. If I take off my sort of historian hat, if I take off any hat you want and just put on a business hat, it is very likely I would have made the same decision.”

 

Because who would have thought that this story was positive? I mean, it's absurd that what we have uncovered is that it was this story of love, honor and respect. But what are the chances? I mean, what other stories in history between an enslaved man and a young white kid ended up like this?

 

Well, I can tell you that it is my belief it was not intentionally removed. I think it was the case that someone that came in did not see the value in it and that's where the mistake happened. And I think we have to acknowledge that it was absolutely a mistake, but we all make mistakes.

 

And I actually am pretty sure I know the person who did it. I've had many conversations with people in Lynchburg, and it was someone who came down from Kentucky. He didn't understand the ways of Lynchburg. 

 

And at that time in Kentucky, the racial division was some of the worst in the entire country. And so you come into Lynchburg and, you know, you've got African Americans and whites sitting around the same dinner table and you're like, “What is this? Who are you guys?”

 

And so I don't think that it was right, but I do understand it. And I think that there is a gift in being able to understand, because it allows you to see that it's a high likelihood and possibility that you could have made the exact same mistake.

 

And if you know and believe that you could have made the exact same mistake, the ability to just focus on getting it right versus focusing on who made the mistake – and I think that, at least for me, the thing that was most important is that we got it right now.

 

And the moment that I showed the research and the history to Mark and to Nelson, and they were then able to very quickly confirm in their own records – because now they knew where to look.

 

Before, we wouldn't have known where to look. Now, they knew exactly where to look. And once they were able to confirm, I mean immediately – they began making the changes within two weeks. I have never known of any major corporation to move that quickly on anything.

 

So, I give a lot of credit for standing up and saying, “You know what? We made a mistake. Let's get it right and let's get it right quickly. And let's not do it because anybody is forcing us to do it, let us do it because it's the right thing to do.” And that's what they did.

 

Lucas: Sure. Ultimately, what do you think are the most important takeaways from the story of Nearest and his family and Jack and his family? What do you think are the most important takeaways about that set of relationships?

 

Fawn: I think for me personally, the most important takeaway is that when people are able to look into each other's eyes and solely see humanity, to solely see the heart of another person, and it's not about the race on the outside, it is about that love, that honor, that friendship on the inside – when you're able to make the outside disappear, all of a sudden you make the world better.

 

When people ask me, “How is it possible that Lynchburg” – I mean, just the name alone. “How is it possible that this town in the South right above Alabama” – I mean, I'm 15 minutes from the Alabama line.

 

“How is it possible that this town was able to have these relationships where African Americans even during Jim Crow era could walk through the front door of the store on the square?” That was not anywhere else in the South that I know of. “How is it possible?”

 

And what I tell people is what I believe is Jack Daniel was the big man in town. He was little, but he was the big man. He was the famous person, right? And he's the person who sort of broke out. People knew him in Nashville. They knew him in Huntsville.

 

So, if the big man in town – if his buddies around him all the time are African American, it's really hard for a town to be racist. When the big man in town has said to you by his actions, not his words, but by his actions, that we are brothers, we are friends, we are in this together, then that has to trickle down everywhere.

 

So, I look at it as a lesson of what we could learn from right now. When I look online and just see the battle between races at times and classes, and I just look at that and go, “Man, if Nearest and Jack were here and could just give a masterclass maybe we could solve all of this.”

 

However they figured this out in the 19th century, we're struggling with it now. And I really wish that they would just come down from heaven really quickly and give us a lesson on how they did it and then they can go back to heaven and keep enjoying their whiskey in heaven.

 

But I wish they'd come down to earth and give us some tips because we're really screwing this up again.

 

Lucas: Yeah. We don't learn sometimes. It's true.

 

Fawn: No, we don’t. 

 

Lucas: Well, Fawn, obviously we could talk for hours and hours and hours about this continued success with the whiskey itself and also with the foundation.

 

If people want to know more about what's going on right now in the world of Nearest Green, where can they turn? What kind of social media presences do you have, that kind of stuff? Give us the big pitch on all that.

 

Fawn: It's super easy. It’s unclenearest.com and every single social media handle, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, it's all UncleNearest.

 

Lucas: Okay. And if they want to reach out to you personally?

 

Fawn: Yeah. If you want to reach out to me personally, the best way is on either the Uncle Nearest page on Facebook or on Instagram, because if you go on there, you'll see I'm very active. I engage with our whiskey family every single day. 

 

And so yeah, if they want to reach out to me, all they have to do is just put @FawnWeaver and it'll tag me and I'll immediately go and see their comment and I'll respond.

 

Lucas: Fantastic. Fawn, thank you for your time. Thanks for joining us Around the Barrel.

 

Fawn: Thank you for having me.

 

Lucas: Around the Barrel is the official podcast of the Jack Daniel Distillery. Follow the podcast on the web at jackdaniels.com/podcast.

 

If you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate and review at Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you gather your on-demand audio. Always remember, with great podcasts and great whiskey, please enjoy responsibly. Join us next time for more conversations Around the Barrel.

 

Your friends at Jack Daniel’s remind you to drink responsibly. Jack Daniel’s and Old No. 7 are registered trademarks, Copyright 2020 Jack Daniel’s. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof, distilled and bottled by Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around the Barrel is intended for listeners 21 years of age and older.